M19s vs A7x

**Alien_Shore** · June 23rd, 2013, 02:18 PM

Most of you guys know that I'm a big fan of the 816 bass horn. They're my primary speaker now, since I spend most of my listening time in the garage these days. And I also just finished up a project for a friend refurbing 4 of her 816s/802-16G/511B combos, and those sound pretty damn amazing in her commercial building (I used Eminence Kappa Pro 15" woofers, new 16ohm frams from Bill, and a custom designed 900Hz XO for each).

Anyway, I got to wondering if any of you have compared the sound of the Model 19s with a horn loaded system, like the A7X? When I upgrade from my M14s, I want big bass horns... The magnificents will be out of my price range, I'm sure so I was thinking to just look for some A7X enclosures, or perhaps fashion something similar using the 816s...

**analog addict** · June 23rd, 2013, 06:04 PM

How much do you like the 816 horn? I have an extra pair sitting in the mancave collecting dust, that I would let go cheap....And NC aint that far away from VA.
Stacked 816s maybe????

**rontec** · June 23rd, 2013, 08:29 PM

For me M19's = intimate home use.
A7x's need wide open spaces.
816's - plan on subs....one opinion...ymmv.

**Altec Best** · June 24th, 2013, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by rontec

For me M19's = intimate home use.
A7x's need wide open spaces.
816's - plan on subs....one opinion...ymmv.

I agree with this as well.. 816's don't go low enough for me.But as AA had suggested stacked 816's will get you closer to better low end extension...

**Old Guy** · June 24th, 2013, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by rontec

For me M19's = intimate home use.
A7x's need wide open spaces.
816's - plan on subs....one opinion...ymmv.

As an addendum- to me the A7 is more aggressive, "in your face' while the 19 is a bit more accurate IMHO.

Loud rockers may well like the aggressiveness, acoustic listeners likely would prefer the 19's.

**Alien_Shore** · June 24th, 2013, 07:46 PM

Thanks for the feedback fellas.
Perhaps I will do what Matt did:

DIY Model 19s

although I think I would go ahead and put 511 horns in there and maybe choose a different woofer...

I just wonder if I'll miss the great LF throw that the 816 horn gives?

GM · June 24th, 2013, 08:51 PM

The M19 has way more bass and much more tonally balanced than an 816 since it's unloaded below ~156 Hz. What it has is chest pounding upper mid-bass, lower mids ~ the same as an A7 that allows for much greater efficiency from ~200 Hz all the way up to the HF horn's limits, so as already noted, it seems like a kick-a$$ sub system is the preferred route here.

That, or make a reasonable compromise same as me, AB and some others have done by using dual woofers in large cabs that at least in my case is better overall performing than when they were ~70 Hz compression horn loaded. In room, ~corner loaded, my ~20 ft^3/16 Hz Fb cabs are at least 103 dB/4ft eff. down to around 20 Hz.

GM

**Altec Best** · June 27th, 2013, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by GM

The M19 has way more bass and much more tonally balanced than an 816 since it's unloaded below ~156 Hz. What it has is chest pounding upper mid-bass, lower mids ~ the same as an A7 that allows for much greater efficiency from ~200 Hz all the way up to the HF horn's limits, so as already noted, it seems like a kick-a$$ sub system is the preferred route here.

That, or make a reasonable compromise same as me, AB and some others have done by using dual woofers in large cabs that at least in my case is better overall performing than when they were ~70 Hz compression horn loaded. In room, ~corner loaded, my ~20 ft^3/16 Hz Fb cabs are at least 103 dB/4ft eff. down to around 20 Hz.

GM

Yup ! I'm almost done now..Hooked one up couple days ago just to see where I'm at.. Only had them up for a couple minutes and I'm liking what I'm hearing ! Greg you are a Genius !!! Holy Crap !! Felt like someone was drumming on my chest.. That gave me some serious motivation to get'r done..

The only word that comes to mind about Altec dual 15" 416-8B woofers is "Awesome" !

GM · June 27th, 2013, 01:32 PM

Nah, the guy[s] that designed the components were the geniuses.

Yep, if I had it to do again I'd of kept the other 515Bs and used [4]/channel on ~2006"^2 baffles to ~mimic the ~70 Hz's horn mouth area. Mirror imaged on the floor to drop them down nearly an octave, I figure this is the practical limit for all but the largest HIFI/HT rooms. Combined with some room gain, the largest pipe organ symphonies could be a ~live reproduction assuming your home's construction could handle the LF's destructive force.

GM

**Altec Best** · June 27th, 2013, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by GM

Nah, the guy[s] that designed the components were the geniuses.

Yep, if I had it to do again I'd of kept the other 515Bs and used [4]/channel on ~2006"^2 baffles to ~mimic the ~70 Hz's horn mouth area. Mirror imaged on the floor to drop them down nearly an octave, I figure this is the practical limit for all but the largest HIFI/HT rooms. Combined with some room gain, the largest pipe organ symphonies could be a ~live reproduction assuming your home's construction could handle the LF's destructive force.

GM

Yes my home has no drywall.It's all plaster.Walls & Ceiling's...

BTW- You don't give yourself enough credit..Without the enclosures they are just that, components.

Thanks Again GM !!! If I had one wish I only wish that you could hear them.